Irreverant Apologetics

Thoughts of a Catholic

Why the Catholic Church cannot, in any way, be the Whore of Babylon

Posted by farsight001 on March 26, 2010

To explain why it is impossible for the Catholic Church to be the Whore of Babylon is really quite a simple matter – one in which simple reasoning and a little geography will do.

First, we have to start with explaining a word – the word “criteria”.  There are two kinds of criteria.  There is what I call “or” criteria and “and” criteria.  Its fairly straightforward.  “Or” criteria is like the criteria needed to get a handicapped sticker for your car so you can park in the handicapped spots in parking lots.  If you are in a wheelchair, or need assistance walking, or are allergic to sunlight, you meet the criteria to park in the handicapped spots.  One does not need to be in a wheelchair AND allergic to sunlight to do so.  This is “or” criteria – where one only needs to meet one, or a few of, the criteria for something.

“And” criteria is what you think it is – criteria in which all applicable statements must apply.  To be president of the United States, one must be at least 35 years old AND born in the United States, AND have lived in the United States for the last decade.  If you were born and raised in the United States and have never even left the country, but are only 34 years old, you cannot be president.  Likewise, if you were born on the Mexico side of the border while actually at the border, and immediately taken over to the U.S., where you lived for 65 years, you still cannot be president.  This is because you must meet ALL of the criteria to be president.

What is the relevance of this to the Whore of Babylon and the Catholic Church?  It is the kind of criteria to be the whore that is the relevance.  That criteria is “and” criteria.  The entity in question must meet ALL of the criteria in question to be the Whore.  What does this mean for us?  It means something very important – that we need only prove that only one of the criteria does not apply to the Church.  Because it is “and” criteria, if the Church is even off by just one criteria, it cannot (I repeat, CANNOT) be the whore.  It does not matter how evil the Church may be, or how many people they have killed, or even if it openly claims to actually be the whore – if it does not meet EVERY criteria, it is, by definition, not the Whore of Babylon.  This means that we need only show that just one of the criteria for the Whore fails to apply to the Catholic Church to prove conclusively that the Church is not the Whore as described in Revelation.

The one criteria we are going to cover here is that the Whore is supposed to be a city on seven hills.  While there are dozens of cities throughout the world that sit on seven hills, one is mentioned more than any other – Rome.    Its constant mention is often found in the assertion that the Catholic Church is the Whore and is based in Rome.  But there is a serious problem with this, and that is simply that the Catholic Church is not actually based in Rome, nor did it necessarily originate there.  The Catholic Church, it could be argued, isn’t actually based anywhere.  It’s members live all over the world.  The Catholic Church is based on Earth – this is as specific as we can really get without bending truth a bit.  Still, no one would doubt that the Catholic Church, if based in any specific place on Earth, is based in Vatican City because that is where the top of the Church hierarchy lives and works.  This is where the geography comes into play.

As any topographical map of Rome and the surrounding area will show, the Vatican actually sits on only one hill.  Normally I would not recommend wikipedia, but it does currently have a nice, clear, and easy to read map of the area found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Seven_Hills_of_Rome.svg  Of course, this is not a topographical map, but you would probably find it far easier to make sense of than one.   You can see from the map that there are seven hills of Rome way over on the east side, and Vatican hill way over on the left end.  Not only is the one hill that the Vatican sits on quite distinct from the seven of Rome, but there is even a fair amount of land and the Tiber river between it and those other hills.  So we see clearly that the Vatican does not sit on seven hills, but rather only one, that one of which is not part of the seven that give us Rome.

Now the red line bordering Rome on that map is ancient Rome.  The city has grown quite a bit since then – so much so that Vatican city is now encompassed on all sides by Rome.  Still, it is not Rome itself, nor even part of Rome, but it’s own very distinct city.  And even so, that does not matter.  If one wanted to include the Vatican as part of Rome because one wants it to fit the criteria for the Whore, one actually runs into a bit of a problem – that in the desire to include the Vatican in Rome, one must also include the hill on which the Vatican sits, along with any other hills that fall in the current confines of Rome, totaling the hills that make up Rome eight at the very least.

So one can see with a little reasoning and a good map that no matter how you might try to spin it, the Vatican, and thus the Catholic Church, does not in any way sit on seven hills.  And since this is one of the “and” criteria for the Whore of Babylon, then this also means that it is quite literally impossible for the Church to be said Whore.

Posted in Actual Apologetics | Tagged: , , | Leave a Comment »

Oh, so you know already…

Posted by farsight001 on April 21, 2009

Luke 1:26-38. Twelve measly verses out of thousands. Most people probably read these verses and don’t see much meaning to them. At a glance, all it looks like is an announcement of the coming of Christ, but the bible should never just be glanced at. So many people read the bible over and over and over again and think they understand all there is to understand about it. Oh how wrong they are! In these 12 little verses is a cornucopia of meaning to those who choose to see.

At the beginning of these verses, we see the angel Gabriel greeting Mary with “Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with you.” In some translations, full of grace is instead rendered as “highly favored one,” but the gist remains the same – something is very important about Mary. You’ll notice that the angel also says that she will conceive, not that she has already. This conception is future tensed. And yet, she is still revered by Gabriel. Much like God lowered himself to our level and became man, Gabriel, an angle, lowers himself by honoring Mary. If such a higher being can do it, then surely so can we! In fact we should! Satan would not give honor to Jesus the man because he was higher than man on the “celestial ladder.” That Jesus was special did not matter to him. How much worse an offense would it be to refuse to give honor to a special creation of God that is on the same rung as us? She is highly favored by God. So, too, should she be favored by us.

It was mentioned above that some translations refer to Mary as “highly favored one.” This is not entirely accurate. In Greek, it is “kecharitomene.” There isn’t really a way to translate this well because English doesn’t have a perfect passive participle and kecharitomene is in such a form. What does perfect passive participle mean? Basically that Mary was that way from the get go – when she was first created, she was created in this state of Grace. And what does that mean? From the moment she was conceived, she was filled with the grace of God and so had no room for sin. While we are saved by being lifted out of the pit of sin, she was saved by being kept from falling in in the first place. This again indicates her importance to God and reiterates her status of importance and the necessity of showing her respect.

Lastly, we see a great testament of Mary’s faith here in these verses. Gabriel told her that she would become pregnant, bear a son, and name him Jesus and he would be king of all. But was she really listening to the rest of that? Would you notice anything else if you were single and just found out you were pregnant? I know I wouldn’t, but that might be partly due to me being a man. I can imagine her stopping Gabriel mid sentence and saying “I’m going to be what now?” And she doesn’t live in today’s world that is generally accepting of unwed mothers. She lived 2000 years ago when sex outside of marriage meant stoning. I doubt the general public would have been wiling to accept her “Goddidit” explanation, especially since even Joseph was preparing to leave her quietly until an angel made a visit to him too. Sure the angel said that he would be born and she would get to name him, suggesting that she gets to live for now, but you can’t say the thought wasn’t going through here head – “I might be killed for this.” By her words “be it done to me according to your word,” she not only accepted God’s call, but knowingly put her life on the line doing it. There is simply no greater example of obedience to God than is found in Mary!

While many people pay her no mind, or even belittle her by thinking of her as no more than the wrapping paper that Christ came in, we should be looking to her as an example to us all of what it means to follow Christ.

Random movie quote: “Hello? 911 emergency. My car’s been stolen! I’m in pursuit! I need the whole squadron, bring everyone! No, no don’t ask any questions, my father’s the head of the neighborhood watch!”

michelangelos_pieta_5450_cropncleaned_edit1

Posted in Actual Apologetics, Random deep thoughts | Tagged: , | 1 Comment »

What is the Catholic Church?

Posted by farsight001 on August 11, 2008

However odd it may sound to say it, the Catholic Church is like Kansas.  I pretty much lived there all my life up until six months ago.  It’s still only a 15 minute drive away, but even so, I miss it.  And it was this that made me realize that the Church is like Kansas.

To an outsider, Kansas is boring.  I get that.  I saw an article in a newspaper a few years back that talked about how Kansas is literally flatter than a pancake.  Some mathematicians and such sat down, did the math, and figured out that Kansas is quite literally flatter than a pancake.  To people who live in places like Florida, California, Colorado, or Maine, that can’t look too interesting.  If someone drives from one end of the country to the next, the most notable thing about Kansas is all of the adult superstores along Interstate 70.  That’s actually fitting, though.  I mean, what’s the first thing that comes to a person’s mind when they hear the word “Catholic”?  Probably something like “pedophile”.  Ironic because the person thinking that is statistically more likely to be one than a priest is simply by virtue of being a parent.  But I digress.

See, those people have heard about Kansas, and they might have even driven through Kansas, but they don’t know Kansas.  Honestly, I wouldn’t expect them to.  Even people who have lived there all their lives can find it boring.  But that’s not because it is – it most certainly isn’t.  That’s because they never bothered to look around.  I lived there most of my life and I actually did look around.  But not just look, I explored.  It grows on you.  I can say to you with complete honesty that I find a wheat field just as beautiful as a mountain peak.  It’s like the ocean.  It’s just one really big expanse of blue.  Beautiful in its simplicity, except with a wheatfield, it’s not simple.  It just looks that way at a glance.  Look closely and you’ll discover that it is extremely intricate.  And if no matter how hard you try, you still can’t see the beauty there, just visit the flint hills – as green in the summer as Ireland has ever been.

That is the Catholic church.  You can pass through it and never really see it.  You can even be a part of it, and never really get it.  Sometimes if you want to see the beauty in something, you actually have to look for it.  Even pancakes are a beautiful thing – at least soaked in syrup.

Random movie quote: “We’re in Italy. Speak English”

If you don't know what John Candy has to do with pancakes, you have a problem.

If you don't know what John Candy has to do with pancakes, you have a problem.

Posted in Random deep thoughts | Tagged: | Leave a Comment »

 
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